Leadership challenge question?

[Krys]

Hi there.

I noticed Heda has been given permission to challenge Scythe & Crota for their leadership roles in Loess; I was hoping for some clarification about the process of challenging/taking over a kingdom for future reference.

In regards to Ischia, the takeover by Kirin was once labeled a "raid" (as a "raid" is defined as an attack or warfare, and there was no battling, I'm not sure about the accuracy of that label), though it was essentially an outside entity coming in to try to take over Ischia. Requires owner permission, and a team, with a total of 50 points accrued.

In regards to Loess, the takeover by Heda is not labeled as a "raid", and is also essentially and outside entity coming in (as Heda is from Taiga). Requires owner permission, no team, with no points accrued.

In regards to Tephra, a takeover attempt by Belgarath was approved by one owner, but another owner specified that 50 points had to be accrued by Belgarath/team to complete the takeover, thus the takeover was unsuccessful.

All three are technically mutiny by a non-resident, but there aren't clear directions post-Reckoning as to how to challenge/take over a land for those who do not reside inside of the land.

I'm just asking in hopes of clarifying the actual requirements of a takeover versus a raid, and what the difference is in terms of how the owners define a takeover vs a raid, and whether or not teams or points are required for one, or both - for anyone and everyone seeking to maybe stir up some trouble in the kingdoms in the future. 

Thank you in advance.

[Spink]

Another note... with Kirin, it was stressed that there HAD to be an element of clear in character planning in order for it to count towards votes...Kirin had a plot, and many posts to that effect, however Votes were counting against his team because there was no exact "Yes" answer from some of the characters, even though there was clear intent. There is no hint of any IC things happening here at all.


Clarification would be awesome, please, and thank you.

[Kortnee]

Hey all!

So - Kirin was a raid to take over Ischia as an outside force. In the past raids typically involved one kingdom vs. another, or just a party coming together to raid another kingdom to either take over or for fun. That's the need for the IC part, because in character the raiding party had to be created. So that's doesn't fit the current narrative because that was a raid.

Belgarath was challenging Magnus for the throne, which was a direct challenge to the leader.

Heda is invoking the following rule - "A non-resident horse can declare themselves the new leader, with permission from an owner, though the other members of the land do not have to accept them." Since the leaders are inactive she's coming in to try to take over, but there's no owner saying she HAS to take over, just that she can come in and say "I want this land" and everyone has the right to either accept her or kick her out.

You're right - this does point out the need for more precise rules about the types of overthrows and what it takes to do them. As a group we'll work to update the rules for specifics about the ways you can overthrow a current active ruler, a current inactive ruler, or raid a kingdom vs mutiny (from within).

[Spink]

Why couldn't Kirin have gone and done the same thing with Ischia then? That situation was told it needed 50 points and 5 people (hence why it ended up being called a raid), not that he could just go in and take it since the leader was inactive Ea hadn't posted since.... I don't know when. So technically it too was up for grabs, hence why it was a target at all.

I'm just really confused, that's all.

[Krys]

Thank you, Kortnee! That definitely clears up the Belgarath/Heda portion (and I now see the difference) but I'm also confused as to why Kirin's attempt was considered a raid when he was trying to take over from an inactive leader like Heda is with no battling intended (going by what a raid is in the guide)? Shouldn't it have been the same protocol then? Maybe there was a miscommunication in intent. Hm.

Nonetheless, thank you for answering my question! I incorrectly thought a team and points were necessary for ALL takeovers so I'm glad I asked, haha.

Thanks again!

[Kortnee]

Hey all!

I talked with Cassi, who approved the initial Kirin raid, and in the PM sent regarding the overthrow it said "Would he be allowed to recruit a team?" It was understood that meant a raid, since multiple people were involved.

[Krys]

Ooh, okay.
That makes sense.
I (obviously) wasn't involved in that conversation so I had no idea, haha.
I didn't honestly realize the difference because I had incorrectly assumed after Belgarath that teams and/or points were required for all takeovers.
Thank you for clearing it up, Kortnee.

[Spink]

ahaha. okay, makes sense now. Thank you!

[Kortnee]

Yep! In the next version we'll have more clear cut rules, since this isn't written in total stone